My Interview with Jon Netts

Over a glass of iced coffee drink with a ridiculously long name, as is a custom at Starbucks, I sit down with Jon Netts. Our conversation ran long, so there are some minor omissions. Italics are mine...

IH: What made you run for Mayor?

JN: I think this is the time when Palm Coast is at a cross roads. We are facing challenges that, I think, require among other things an in-depth understanding of the issues. Understanding that there is no single issue. Everything is inter-related and, the problems that we face are not entirely of our own making, and the solutions are not entirely within our own grasp. We are going to have to work much more closely with the other cities in Flagler County, with the County itself and our State and Federal officials. I think I’ve got the experience, the knowledge and the ability to work with other people that that will take.

IH: Are you referring to the city government experience, or overall…

JN: Well both, and City government… There are many issues that are not obvious.

On Water Problems and Solutions

IH: Give me an example

JN: Probably one of the biggest things is the long term solution to potable water. You hear a lot of simplistic solutions but those simplistic solutions belie lack of understanding of the real issue. One of the things you hear all the time is: “if you just stop growth, then you’ll have enough water.” That just isn’t true. It’s in the minds of the people… that if you just put a fence around Florida, or Flagler County or Palm Coast, the problems will go away. The reality is Palm Coast does not own any water, Flagler County does not own any water, water is owned by the State. By legislative action they (the State) own all the water in the State, and they regulate its use through the five regional water management districts, through what are called Consumptive Use Permits, and they are issued on a first come first served basis as long as there is capacity.

IH: Define capacity…

JN: Water available for use. Let me give you an example. Back in the 1960s-1970 when ITT was building Palm Coast, and don’t forget they anticipated a build-out of 250,000 people, they had to satisfy the State that they had enough water to supply those people, and they did that. They said, here is the map, here are all potential well sites, etc., so they had water to supply 250,000 people. So then why today are we looking at a water shortage? Well, things have changed. Primarily what has changed is the regulations. The governing factor for ground water use is the wetlands. Back in the 70s wetlands were defined by 28 different species. Now, there are over 2000 species that are indicative of wetlands. Science of hydrology is better. They understand better what the effects of draw-down on the aquifer are of the wetlands. So whereas there may have been considered enough water for 250,000, now there is not. So, depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist, you project growth and then you project water usage. Then you say, well, how much water do we think is available and when does the water demand cross the water available line? The optimist would tell you 2025, the pessimist would tell you 2011. It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when. And because of the way consumptive use permits are issued, if you put a wall around the city of Palm Coast, there is still available capacity so somebody else is going to get. Bunnell just annexed 42,000 acres, they’ll use it. You can’t look at growth as a Palm Coast issue or a Flagler County issue. It’s a regional issue, because it’s a regional water issue.

IH: So everyone in the St. John’s Water Management District has…

JN: Same issues…About two years ago SJWMD called together all the water utilities in Flagler County, all the interested parties and basically and offered to fund efforts to find a solution to the problem. So for two years the group, what they call of Water Cooperatives has been looking at alternative water sources. We know we can’t just keep sticking holes in the ground, so the first obvious thing to look at is surface water and with St. John’s help we have identified some possible surface water sites. I raised the issue after the report came out listing all these available sources: “what makes anybody think that those people out there will let us pump water here?” The answer SJWMD gave us was that since they regulate the water, it’s up to them…And I questioned if they had enough clout to ensure that if we build a pipe to lower Ocklawaha, that we’ll be able to actually use it. They came back with some statistics that said that the counties around the lower Ocklawaha project to have a 74 million gallon a day deficit by 2020. If they are going to be short on water, do you really think it’s practical that we’ll be able to take the water from them to use here? Now it appears that the best option is desalination from the ocean. I can’t imagine France suing us for pumping water from the ocean, whereas I can very readily imagine Putnam County or Clay County doing that. So, we’ve identified a potential source. There are a couple of options that are open: land based plant, or a rather innovative concept of a ship based desalination plant. A ship based plant can produce between 50 and 100 million gallons of water a day. That’s far in excess of what Palm Coast needs or Flagler County needs, so what needs to happen and it needs to happen sooner rather than later is we need to establish a regional water authority. Palm Coast is the largest water utility around, so I think it’s important that we take a leadership role in this, but you’ve heard the expression of the five hundred pound gorilla. We can’t allow that perception to get in the way of this thing moving forward. It takes leadership that can lead by example rather than by force. We have to be very careful as we take the leadership role that we don’t appear to be forcing other people to follow. It has to be collaborative. But you have to remove the barriers to the cooperation.

On Contributions and Incumbents:

IH: While you have not been the mayor, some consider you an incumbent in this race. You have raised the most money; about 10 times more what each one of your opponents has raised as of today… So there is that perception of you as a good ole’ boy, and that we might do better to replace everyone who has been in our city’s government with fresh blood…

JN: Ok, first of all, let’s look at who my contributors are…

IH: Who are your contributors?

JN: People like you and me. There are a couple of contributors who have given me $500. They are in most cases retired, they are not the movers and shakers, they are not developers, they are not big corporations. Now, I have said all along that I would rather have $100 at a $1.00 a piece from a hundred people than $100 from one person. So I don’t see my contribution base as a negative thing. I think it’s indicative of grass roots support.

IH: Do you feel that there are any special interests whatsoever, things that are important to you personally that might you might be biased with regard to?

JN: Probably, my biggest bias is the citizens of Palm Coast. If you look at my history, in the six years, I was the first elected official in Flagler County to ever conduct regular Town Hall meetings. First one ever and I think it’s a good thing, geared to make government more accessible. And it must not be a bad thing since at least two of my colleagues on the City Council started doing it, and at least three County Commissioners started doing it. Let me tell you a story: Long before we incorporated, long before I considered running for office, I started going to City Council and there was a meeting one day that started at 9:00 a.m. at the community center, went to noon, recessed for an hour for lunch and they reconvened in the old city hall which was the old library building in a room that barely had room for city council, let alone any residents. And I thought, by god, how user unfriendly is this? We need to make government transparent, we need to make it accessible, make people feel like they are a part of it... One of the things that I’ve done, consciously tried to do is that you’ve (the resident) got my home number, you’ve got my cell number, you’ve got my e-mail address, my home address. My policy has been that if someone has an issue with city government, return their call, get in the car meet them at their curb, front steps, their living room and talk to them about it.

IH: Have you ever done that?

JN: Absolutely. I get 2 or 3 calls a day. Some trivial, some just venting, and some of it problems…

IH: One of the strongest sentiments voiced in conversations is that people are thrilled that most of the seats in city government are up for grabs, and virtually every ‘incumbent’ is getting replaced. How happy does that make you?

JN: It really depends on who people are getting replaced by… One of the things that Jim Canfield did from his first council meeting on was establish a tone for government. You are in the media, you don’t have to look very far to find examples of disruptive behavior by elected officials, verbal and even physical abuse, recrimination, retribution. Ralph Carter, bless his soul, used to comment about civility and how important it is. The issue in any government is to be able to work together, to be able to share ideas, to be as much of a good listener as a speaker, to have reasonable discourse. It’s certainly not unreasonable to expect one person to try to convince another. But at the end of the day you take a vote, and if 3 heads are nodding in the same direction, something happens. You can’t then say “I didn’t get my way…,” We’ve never had that and we don’t want that. The five that are there work well together. It doesn’t mean agree, it means accept the premise of representative government. As long as you replace with people who are willing to behave in the same fashion, it’s fine.

IH: So you don’t have this itching desire to get rid of everybody and start fresh?

JN: It is unusual that four out of five seats are open at the same time. The whole idea is gradual transition. If you had four new people in city government, the learning curve would be significant. There is something to be said about institutional memory. Governments should change by evolution rather than revolution. Drastic changes rarely produce stability.

IH: How long is the learning curve, in your experience?

JN: Two years… You can become a quick study on a single issue, but what is most difficult for people new to government is to understand the law of unintended consequences. Someone said: “what single thing would you like to accomplish?” There is no single thing, because what you do here affects something else. You have to find the balance and it’s understanding this balance that is so important and that takes time and it takes experience.

On His Opponents:

IH: What do you think of your opponents in this race?

JN: I have met Joe Cunnane over the years. I have not met Mr. Good. I’ve seen him, I have heard him speak on a few occasions. I think I am the best of the three candidates because of my experience, because of my positions, and I am sure they think they are the best because of their positions.

IH: If you were not running and your two opponents were the only options, who would you vote for?

JN: I can’t answer that because I have not heard either one of them put forth a platform. I hear rumors, whispering campaigns going on out there, but I don’t like to base decisions upon rumors, I’d like to hear someone tell me: “this is what I believe,” and then I can make a decision. I have not heard that yet.

On the New Tennis Facility:

IH: Fair enough. What is your take on the tennis facility?

JN: I voted for it. I think it will be an overwhelming success.

IH: The one in Volusia County is failing miserably.

JN: And I think you have to define ‘failing’. Somebody said to me: “I don’t think the tennis court is ever going to make money.” Well, it wasn’t supposed to be making money. The soccer fields aren’t making money; the fire department isn’t making money… That tennis facility is part of what contributes to quality of life. That tennis facility can be used and will be used and must be used by people of all ages, the very young and the very old. That’s part of what makes Palm Coast a desirable place to live. People didn’t move here because the roads were well-maintained, or because the swales drained properly… We want that, but people moved here for quality of life.

IH: We drive by empty tennis courts routinely, granted not clay. What makes you confident that it will even be utilized?

JN: There is already league play very active in Palm Coast, and now it goes elsewhere. Look back on the Players Club, before the European Village was built, it was widely used. Why shouldn’t we regenerate this kind of use? I think there is a historical track record; that tennis is important. When ITT built Palm Coast, what were some of the first things they had put in? Golf courses and tennis courts. They were marketing experts. They knew what would attract people here.

IH: Where do you draw the line between something the city should subsidize and something it shouldn’t?

JN: That’s why Palm Coast in its charter has capped the spending. City Council cannot incur any long term unfunded debt without a referendum. It’s a minority of people who want tennis, it’s a minority of people who want golf, it’s a minority of people who want cultural arts venues, it’s a minority of people who want more softball and soccer, but you add all of those minorities together and you get a city. The role of government is to balance the needs of all of these different factions, and not put your eggs in one basket. The more successful you are as a city, the more you can fund in a way of amenities.

On Economic Development

JN: When we talk about economic development, we, Enterprise Flagler, Flagler County, the City, have finally realized that we are not going to get Fortune 500 companies here. We are going to be much more successful with smaller companies. The most recent success, this company called Seidcon, a family business…

IH: Some would disagree with you on that being a success

JN: Why?

IH: How many employees do that have or even plan to have long term?

JN: Ten.

IH: That’s it?

JN: I’ll take ten companies of ten rather than one company of a hundred. If you bring in a 100 jobs in one business and that business relocates, you lose 100 jobs. Give me ten companies with ten jobs, I am much happier. But why did they move here? Wasn’t because we have a deep water port, or because we have rail, or an international airport… It’s because this is where the owner of the company wants to live.

IH: Speaking about Enterprise Flagler… any other successes worth mentioning?

JN: If you define success as names of companies that were relocated here, there are some, not as many as we would have liked, there is CaneProof, and some others… But economic development is one of these amorphous things that… you can’t do a one to one correspondence between effort and results. I think that Enterprise Flagler as it’s currently structured is poised for success. One of the best things they did is to realize that they can’t be dependent on government for their funding. They went out and contracted with a consulting firm and raised in excess of $5,000,000 over five years, so that private sector is now a major contributor. That to me is a success. Aligning with Corner Stone, very significant step…

IH: What is your take on number of small businesses that went out of business? Are there any plans for helping businesses that are already here?

JN: There is talk of creating a business incubator. You have hundreds of home businesses in Palm Coast. Some of those businesses have no desire to grow and they don’t need any help, but some of them do want to grow and need help getting to the next step.

IH: How will it be different in function from the Chamber of Commerce?

JN: The Chamber provides networking, advertising, emotional support… The business incubator will be more direct, infrastructure related. All these organizations need to be interfacing. Enterprise Flagler’s recent business retention success – they got a grant for 1 million dollars that allowed Searay Boats to stay in Flagler County. {Jon Netts is one of the Directors of Enterprise Flagler}

On a Personal Note:

IH: Should you get elected, are you going to keep your Tow Boat job?

JN: Sure.

IH: Do you think that with emergency calls you get there that might prevent you from being able to do your job for the residents of the city?

JN: Actually, I think my Tow Boat job is ideal… First of all, I have two back up captains, second of all, the family that owns the franchise has St. Augustine, Daytona, and Titusville as well as Flagler, so there is always of possibility of getting a back up from one of their other sites.

IH: What is your Achilles’ heel, if any?

JN: Impatience. Gradually learning to accept the fact that you can’t do everything at once, and probably failing to realize that not everybody has the same access to information. I make assumptions that because I know this, everybody knows it.

IH: What did you want to be when you were little?

JN: (with a hearty chuckle) In the back of my mind, I always wanted to be a teacher. Both my parents were teachers. But like every kid, you know, you go from cowboy to astronaut to football player, but I think I have always wanted to be involved in education. I did it both as a teacher and administrator…

IH: When you moved here, why not stay in education?

JN: Wanted to try something new. If I wanted to stay in education, I probably wouldn’t have moved.

Looking Forward:

IH: What can we (the newly elected group) accomplish in this next year?

JN: Some philosophical, some practical. We need to get our Land Development Code out, edited and out. We need to start as quickly as possible a review of our Comprehensive Plan. It was written four years ago; half the people who are here now weren’t residents then. We need to assure ourselves that the vision that our comp plan puts forth is a vision that’s shared by residents.

IH: How would the residents be able to have input into that?

JN: When we did it the first time, we advertised, but I am not sure we did as much outreach as we could have done. There was a sense of urgency, as we were operating under the comp plan of the County. If the comp plan represents my vision or your vision and not a shared vision, than everything that flows from it is going to be contentious. We need to be sure it’s a shared vision.

On Palm Harbor Golf Course:

IH: What is your take on the Centex mess?

JN: It’s the glass half empty or half full argument…

IH: Well, in your opinion, which is it?

JN: That depends. Is anybody happy about what happened with Centex? No, probably least of all Centex. No corporation that I am aware of ploughs money into something with the hopes that it will fail. So what’s the silver lining? We’ve been talking about municipal golf course for some time, acquiring land and developing it from scratch. The upside to the Centex debacle is that it provides city with an option that we can get a municipal golf course, perhaps, with much less cost.

IH: Is it much less cost though?

JN: Oh, sure, because when you start from scratch, the first thing you have to do is buy the land, and then you have to build from scratch. Where we stand right now, Centex agreed to donate the golf course to the city. We are still discussing just how much land they are donating, but the point is it’s a donation. The issue is, both, the consultant the city hired and friends of golf suggest that having land for a driving range is important for the course to succeed. So that’s where we are at now, trying to maximize our opportunity for success.

IH: Did you support the Palm Coast Resort project? Did you see any hidden dangers in the initial proposal and was there anything we could have done differently from the start that could have helped us avoid this situation?

JN: Practically speaking, no. I mean I’ve heard “you should have demanded a performance bond,” but you can’t. They weren’t building something for us. I’ve heard “you should have forced them to build the hotel first,” you can’t intrude on their business plan, at least not without accepting the risks as well as the benefits. If we intrude on their business plan and things go sour, what liability would we incur? You have to understand what the options were as we understood them. The background was, they came to the city and said: “we are losing money, the hotel is old, we’ve rehabbed rooms as many times as we can, the size, the shape, the layout of the resort is not commensurate with what people now are looking for in a destination resort. We want to tear it down and build condos…” Which they could have done with absolute right; that’s how it was zoned. The Council said: “we need the hotel, the amenities, the restaurant.” Centex, well actually Lowe Corporation at the time said: “that’s additional cost, additional risk and we need greater density to fund those additions.”

IH: So, could we have done anything differently in that situation?

JN: We could have refused the PUD.

IH: Would we have been better off if we had done that?

JN: Probably not. Think about what the alternative was – straight condos. You would still have had a phased project, straight condos, you would not have had the same height, that may be a benefit retrospectively, but it was still a phased project. Essentially, we would be in the same shape we are in now, only the one building they would have built would have been lower. Other than that, this was privately owned property, they had development rights, and I don’t think the end result would have been any different.

IH: Is there anything you would like to see changed in either the way we issue PUDs, or anything that would potentially prevent the possibility of abandoned properties?

JN: I don’t think there is much you can do to prevent abandonment of a project. Most projects whether you are talking single family or large developments are loan based. If the market changes, the lender is not available, the project is probably not going to be finished. As for doing something differently, if I had my druthers, I’d get the land development code out, get the review of the comp plan, and revise the code as necessary to incorporate the concepts of master planned communities, gateway communities. Build enough creativity into the land development code so that you don’t have what is typically called “Euclidean zoning”, streets and lots. Pass an ordinance, after all of this is done, that says that any amendment to the plan will require a super majority of the council… And, quite frankly, I’d be perfectly comfortable eliminating PUDs from our language. What is the function of a PUD? It’s to allow more creativity when you are hamstrung by your code…

IH: But it’s a bargaining chip…

JN: It is a bargaining chip, but if you can build that into the code, then you shouldn’t have to bargain. If you got a good comp plan that reflects a shared vision and a good land development code that implements that vision, you don’t need the PUDs.

Last Words:

IH: Last question because I know you have to run… Is there a place anywhere that you would want our city to model itself after?

JN: We are young, but we are not young. The majority of our city was planned 30 years ago. If we were starting with a blank piece of paper, I am sure Palm Coast would look differently now. But this is what we have. Where we have undeveloped land, we can develop it in a fashion that is more functional. When we moved here, we did it because we liked what we saw here. First and foremost, we need to maintain this as a desirable place to live. It’s amenities, it’s economic development, it’s balanced tax base… There is no one thing. The way you get amenities, is you fund them, but if you don’t have a balanced tax base, you are very limited at what you can do.